Season 2, Episode 3: This makes no sense

[00:00:00] Justinus: When he retired, there was pretty much not a single record in South African rugby that wasn’t attached to his name,

[00:00:06] Percy: visualizing the ball going through the poles during the zone, you don’t even hear the crowd. I was trying to find myself after rugby, you know, I’ve been going through a lot of ups and downs.

[00:00:14] Justinus: Ricky Maia built a 37 foot catamaran and sailed across the Atlantic. I

[00:00:21] Ricky: was in a, an extended stay in Knoxville, Tennessee, looking out the window and I’m just like, what am I. Doing, and now I’m burning like equivalent to a hundred thousand round a month. So I’ve lost my thyroid from it, from pushing so hard.

[00:00:33] Percy: Things weren’t right in the BOK camp. So a lot of guys left.

[00:00:37] Ricky: I lost $50,000 in my first six months in the States,

[00:00:40] Percy: and my girlfriend said to me, babe, you’ve gotta do something. You know what I mean? What? What do you love? So I actually said, I love tequila.

[00:00:45] Ricky: My goal in life was never financial success. AI can never replace community.

[00:00:50] One of my mentors taught me this. Rick, you don’t. Lack resources. You lack resourcefulness.

[00:01:04] Justinus: Good morning. Welcome to Winning the Away Game. Today we have two special guests, first in Tennessee in the us. I, Rick May, a business operator and investor. He has an amazing story. Built a 37 foot catamaran and sailed across the Atlantic to the us. Spent some time cruising around in the Caribbean and then ended up in the us, left South Africa due to a perceived ceiling, particularly navigating A DHD, and, and his huge ambition stopped in Nashville, which he felt.

[00:01:40] Just like Pretoria and State, as a matter of faith, now operates across business coaching, real estate and building up people around him. And then with him, one of the all time biggest Spring book record holders, Percy Montgomery. When he retired, there was pretty much not a single record in South African rugby that wasn’t attached to his name.

[00:02:02] A career defined by global movement playing all over the world, experienced exile, comeback, and longevity. Like very few other rugby players have now building a second chapter through business and public engagements and focused on a legacy beyond rugby. Welcome, gentlemen. I can’t wait to hear your stories flip

[00:02:23] Flip: so much.

[00:02:24] Looking forward to, to this episode, a personal mentor of mine, the guy I looked up to, Percy, it took me under his wing when I played my first game for the spread box. It’s so diligent, so much time for, for other people and Ricky, entrepreneur and and himself. I’m looking forward to this, this conversation, gentlemen.

[00:02:42] Bur here, Ricky, great to have you on. We’ve got a little tradition that when we start the, when we start the show, we ask you your favorite springbok memory, and you’re not allowed to say Joel Stransky in 1995. Percy, where are you and what’s your favorite spring walk memory?

[00:02:58] Percy: I mean, nice at the moment. Uh, but favorite springbok memory?

[00:03:01] Definitely the 2 0 7 World Cup final beating England.

[00:03:05] Justinus: I actually met another Englishman last week that tried to convince me that guy’s foot wasn’t over the line and into touch. They still staunchly believe it was a try.

[00:03:15] Percy: I think, I think you should just tell him what’s your first game, the three? No,

[00:03:19] Ricky: very good, Ricky.

[00:03:21] It’s, it’s firstly, it’s honor to be here, guys and, and share this platform with, with all of you. I would definitely say 2007. I wouldn’t give my age away, but I was in a, in a bar watching the game and it was full of South Africans. And everybody had come together to watch this game and I’d realized, wow, like there’s real power behind this game when this game was on and I was realizing like, Hey, like just think about it.

[00:03:45] This is a small South African country. We playing at a world class level. And we won this game and that’s when I realized, you know, like any South African, hey, we can go out there and conquer big things. So yeah, watching 2007 was amazing and obviously growing up watching Percy play, play rugby and today to be on this is, is pretty surreal.

[00:04:06] So yeah, that was a moment

[00:04:07] Flip: that’s pretty unique that you both mentioned 2007 and, and in my personal life I often think back to 2007, ’cause you know, I was still playing University Rugby n we. Sitting in the res and we watched all that game together, you know, and a few years later being able to play with some of those boys, it was, was incredible.

[00:04:25] Percy, you are. You, you know, intergenerational springbok, you know, you, you played with so many generations of springbok from the start of professionalism, right through, up until the, the both professional of the professional, and I think you were the ultimate professional as well.

[00:04:42] Percy: And a lot of law changes.

[00:04:44] Flip: Oh yeah. Yeah. Well I didn’t think you, you didn’t as as many run-ins with the law as I did myself.

[00:04:50] Percy: Yeah, because,

[00:04:51] Flip: because you ultimately made sort of a comeback for the 2007 World Cup, if I’m not mistaken. You left for Wales and there was a bit of a fuss.

[00:04:59] Percy: Yeah,

[00:05:00] Flip: I was a little bit too young and wet behind the years to understand the whole thing.

[00:05:03] But take us a little bit through that period when you decided to leave South Africa to go to Wales to look across the border.

[00:05:10] Percy: South African rugby, they were going through a bit of difficulties at the time, um, and um, a lot of, uh, south African players were going overseas and at that stage you only two, you can only pick two South African players to come back and to play to represent two country as co as coaches.

[00:05:28] Gary Tishman was at Newport, Adrian Garvey, Andy Marinos, and there was a lot of guys all over and I just thought, um. Well, at that time, ut was going to Newport as well, and, um, he pulled out of his school contract and I, I took it and there was a good position for me at Newport. I think Mike Ruddock was the coach and, uh, we, we had a really good season, but that was the trend.

[00:05:52] You know, the guys were starting to leave and obviously. You this, the SA rugby weren’t happy with us all leaving, but things weren’t right in the BOK camp, so a lot of guys left and yeah, I took us’ contract and I went over with my family for a bit of, uh, financial support. My daughter was born in agave in Wales, so it was really a good time for me.

[00:06:14] And, uh, yeah, time for me to sort of reset my goals, I think, uh. At that stage, I think Ru Rudolph, no, he is a good, good, great guy, whatever, but we just, we just didn’t click and he said, no, I must prove myself again after 50 test matches and again, trials again. I said they didn’t wanna gimme a contract, so, so it was an easy decision for me.

[00:06:35] I knew Gary Tishman was over there. And, um, a couple of, so a couple of the bok players and, um, couple of all black, all black Shane Howard, uh, scrum off. Junior to new, like a couple of the players were there from overseas. So I was in a good, good space, good environment there. Then again, you go over there to Newport, you gotta prove yourself and earn that respect.

[00:06:58] So it wasn’t just coming in and getting a big contract, you, you got to, you know, put the hard yards in. So it was tough in the beginning. You, you got, there was a few fights that clapped me a bit, but I stood up. I remember the first game and marriage. I said to me, when you play against the Welsh, the first thing you do, you just club someone.

[00:07:16] Then they’ll leave you alone. And that’s exactly what I did. Luckily I didn’t get, uh, luckily I didn’t get caught. There’s no tmo, so I was okay. So

[00:07:25] Flip: you have to adapt to different cultures and it in the certain ways of, of, of winning respect. The French is very much the same as, you know, you have to shake someone’s cage and then they all look at you as eyes and they’re okay.

[00:07:37] Maybe this guy, we shouldn’t mess with him. Um, Ricky, yourself, the Tokyo of cultures. You had a little bit of enough work culture, then you built the boat to left. That’s in short. Um, I would love you to elaborate a little bit on that.

[00:07:53] Ricky: So I think, I think something that possibly, I haven’t prefaced in, in a lot of my bios, I’m first generation South African, my parents were, were Portuguese, right?

[00:08:03] So fleeing conflict zones to South Africa being first generation. And I don’t know if that had a lot to do with, with foundations of, of what I ended up doing and obviously. The graduated, studied engineering, went into the workforce, quickly realized, Hey, I, I, I’m not gonna cope with this, you know, and I didn’t understand at the time I had a DHD and all of these things.

[00:08:25] Um, so I realized I had to kind of start my own thing, and that went really well. But my goal in life was never financial success. My goal in life was always freedom. Like, what can I do that makes me fee free and how do I do something that has no ceiling? That regardless of the amount of time, energy, and effort that I put into it, I’ll never reach a point where it stagnates.

[00:08:46] It got to that point where I felt like I stagnate. I was building custom homes in Alito and I’m looking at this beach and I’m seeing sailboats come by. I’m like, oh, that. You know that that would be good. Let me preface that with saying, when I was 19 years old, I watched this one video of someone sailing around the wall and I’m like, I’m gonna do this on the bucket list.

[00:09:03] I pinned it down, so come to 28 years old and I’m like, okay, how’s the time? I’m done. I’m selling everything. So myself and my wife convinced her that we’re gonna sell everything. We’re gonna buy a hole so that the hole was in good shape, and then we’ll put in new engines and rigging. And I told her, Hey, like six months we’ll be done.

[00:09:23] We’ll be ready to go. Sailing. Takes two and a half years to finish this boat, right? And, um, so two and a half years, no income, just burning money, plowing into this yacht. And, um, you know, everyone thinks like this is gonna be glamorous, right? And you just, it’s blood, sweat, tears, credit cards, loans, it’s, it’s everything to get this thing done.

[00:09:42] I’m like, I have to finish this. And the, and at the time, the yachties were all like, Hey, you get two kind of people. You get yacht builders and you get sailors, but you never get both. I’m like, okay, challenge accepted, but I’ll take it myself to zero to make this happen. But we launched the boat, get stuck in lockdown in Cape Town for eight months.

[00:10:02] Can’t move. So the dream about leaving and sailing gets shut down. Right. Then we stuck in, in Cape Town like it was, it was the VNA. So it was, it wasn’t the worst place to be life. Yeah. It was tough life. Um,

[00:10:15] Percy: you should have called me man.

[00:10:18] Ricky: It was good. We had a fantastic time. We meet the Americans, we meet the Australians, the British, we all in lockdown in the VNA together.

[00:10:25] So we’re having a great time building relationships. And in that time I formed a consulting business building stuff in the yachting industry. Just again, you know, same, same A DHD pattern. Find a problem, solve the problem, and get rewarded for it. Right? And ended up doing that for three years, not only in South Africa.

[00:10:44] As well, uh, in the Caribbean. So we sail, we set sail out of lockdown just as there’s a gap to leave. So we leave the country and we technically couldn’t have left, but you know, we, we, we kind of left anyway. We went, we won’t

[00:10:58] Flip: tell anyone, don’t worry.

[00:11:01] Ricky: We, we went to Lure and I called this place Luda, Chris.

[00:11:05] Because the wind there is absolutely phenomenal. We pull into the bay, it’s 95 kilometer an hour wind, terrible seas. So thinking that we are half gonna die and lose the boat just out of Cape Town, everything goes well. Ended up going to Volvo, spending some time traveling. Namibia a beautiful country by the way.

[00:11:23] And then, uh,

[00:11:25] Percy: I was born in Wal Bay. I was born in Wal Fish Bay. So

[00:11:28] Ricky: I know that’s that. I know that you’re from, uh, Wal Fish Bay. Leave this and sail across the world, you know, to to the Caribbean while we are waiting for our documentation to process and, and get ready to, to immigrate into the US Obviously, I always say getting into the US is probably one of the hardest countries in the world to get in.

[00:11:49] Legally. Like apparently you can come across the border and they give you a cell phone and a couple a hundred bucks or whatever that is, but if to come legally into the US it is brutal. So that was a big challenge, but I’m very happy to be here today in in Nashville.

[00:12:04] Justinus: When you said you had to convince your wife, I would love to have been a fly on the wall with that discussion because in our house we’ve moved so many times.

[00:12:11] Whenever I get home and I say to my wife, you know, I’ve been thinking she opens the suitcase and starts backing because she knows we are moving somewhere. Um, Percy, you’ve also, I mean obviously then moved around quite a bit. What, what was it like adapting in, in each of these new environments in, in Wales and, and then in France and then coming back to South Africa?

[00:12:32] What was sort of the. Biggest obstacles or challenges with each of those transitions?

[00:12:38] Percy: Living out of a hotel all my life. I’m still living out of hotel, hotels and moving around quite a bit. Obviously with the Centurion, our tequila brand as well. If I look at it when I went to Wales and France, there’s rugby.

[00:12:52] Rugby doesn’t change. It’s the same code. When we played for the Barbarians, we played with a couple of French guys and they couldn’t speak a word of English. So now you think about replaying it like a test sort of against Australia at the Barbarians, and we’ve got some guys who can’t speak a word of English, but everyone knows, you know, we pass left.

[00:13:11] That’s right. You know, and we know the game plan. You can read what the player’s gonna do, and that’s what makes rugby such a beautiful game. You know, you can have all different cultures, different languages, and we just adapt to what’s in front of us. I think just going overseas, it just opens your mind.

[00:13:27] It gave me an opportunity. To reset and go back to the basics. And like I said, you gotta earn that respect in with your teammates. And it’s pretty hard in the beginning, especially when you’ve got a family and you’ve got a newborn baby. And, uh, yeah. But it, uh, brings you down to earth and just, uh, sometimes it’s good to go back to the basics, you know, because a lot of times, or like, like afterlife now, you know, you hit a bumpy road, you.

[00:13:52] You, you, I mean, football. No. You get a weekly program and a, and a daily program under your door in the hotel, you know, and it’s a, it’s a very structured, uh, uh, and easy, you know, and, and we’re doing something we love, we love the game of rugby. We, and, and we’re getting paid for it. And that’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, and we blessed that that can happen.

[00:14:11] So. So, yeah, it’s difficult to get out there in the, in the world, but I always just tell people, just stick to the basics that what got me there and, uh, whether it’s gym or running, just stick to the basics that that got you there.

[00:14:24] Justinus: Can you remember a specific day where you got up and you thought to yourself, shit, I dunno if I made the right decision.

[00:14:31] Percy: Not really. Uh, well, in maybe Newport, there was a time, I mean, it gets dark at three o’clock in the afternoon there, and it’s muddy. And it’s raining, but whenever I get, uh, uh, despondent or I, I get negative. I just go to the ATM and I just check my bank accounts and, uh, I put. Yeah, I feel better. But, uh, no jokes.

[00:14:55] But Newport was good for me. I mean, I got a good p season, I had a good teammates and we had good coaches, Mike Redock, and it was a good team. We even to island, I think, eventually, but we had a, we had a good team and, um, but even my, my kicking my short run up, I used to go like this with my, my fingers before I kick and they’d be, why you do that?

[00:15:15] So now I’m counting my pounds. But, uh, yeah, so I took the mickey out of me there for that. But, um, but it was, I think it’s a learning curve going overseas. I mean, I love the French, the French way of life. The cultures, the people were great. They’re passionate about rugby. So I saw the Walsh actually, you know, and so pretty, they, they, they’re not doing too well, but they climbing the ladder again from the bottom.

[00:15:42] I love traveling. I love that freedom. You go overseas, you come back and you just refreshed and you want to go again. You get hungrier.

[00:15:50] Flip: It’s incredible. When you say Percy, it’s, you think about you went to Newport. I don’t think they exist anymore.

[00:15:55] Percy: The dragons. It’s the dragons now. They call the dragons. The dragons, yeah.

[00:15:59] But they’re doing well. They’re actually doing quite well. Actually. The coach phoned me actually last week when they played against the Stormers, but I was, I was actually in America and I was, I came now to Eisner. I’m so sorry. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m in Nice now. Otherwise, I would’ve gone for a beer with him.

[00:16:13] But it’s actually did quite a while against the Stormers and, uh, they, they’re, they’re not bad. He is a new, new Zealander, uh, the coach, and they are. So, no, they’re doing all right. They’re doing well.

[00:16:24] Flip: Okay. Yeah. That’s good. Vicky, I wanna, I want to get back to boat building. Yeah. Episode because you went over it rather force.

[00:16:32] It’s just like on either side. Like one day we stopped building a boat. Were, were there boats in your family? Did you actually know? Are you an engineer? YouTube, what, what happened?

[00:16:43] Ricky: I’m good at recognizing patterns. That’s typically how I invest, how I look at businesses, how I turn. I’m, I’m looking for particular patterns to happen, right?

[00:16:49] And all I’m looking is like the patterns of success or the patterns of failure. And when it, when came into the boat building, I think what inspired me was people that were doing it, that had less knowledge than me, right? And I’m like, well, that’s a simple pattern. If he can produce it. He’s not an engineer, I can absolutely master it.

[00:17:07] Right? And that is what allowed me to then go start an engineering business in the yachting sector. Was that. Unfair advantage, right? What is the skill that I had that I went to go play this game that was unfair at doing it then? And I always say, I, I follow Ray Dalio’s advice as investing. I like, I don’t play a game that I don’t have an unfair advantage to win it.

[00:17:26] Right. And would it be hard? Yes, absolutely. But if I put my mind to it, like, and I think like you guys, you guys are like 1% or 1% in performance as athletes. And that’s what I always try and. Become in, whether it’s investing or whether it’s boat building, or whether it’s businesses and turnarounds. So my.

[00:17:46] And, and to Percy’s point, like go back to basics. What do we know? Okay, engineering, we know the foundations of engineering. Can we do this boat? Yeah. Sounded realistic to me. A lot of people said, we are crazy though. They said you’d never finish. I mean, by the way, the success rate in in boat building is less than 1%, right?

[00:18:02] So for you to go actually start a boat and finish it and sail it is less than 1%. So very few people do it. And, and you know, I thought it was a lot of, thank goodness I did it when I was young and dumb, you know, 28 years old. It was a perfect time to do it. You have no idea of the amount of pain you are going to go through.

[00:18:18] I remember we had major structural problems at one stage in the boat, and this thing’s huge in the sense that you’ve got a massive bulkheads in this thing, you’re gonna sail this thing across the ocean. And I got my face in my hands and I’m like, what am I doing? Right. And then something that comes to me is always out of the Bible and be like, Hey, Jesus was a carpenter before he let millions of people, right?

[00:18:39] And, and, and they were like, perfect. Done. Let’s get out of it. Continue building. So I just kept on grinding every day, seven days a week, by the way, 14 to 16 hours a day, every single day. I feel like I’m in that stage. I’m coming out of that stage now in the States. But to Percy’s point, like every single time you move, every single time you join something new, you have to start from scratch.

[00:18:58] Right. And that level of commitment, that level of redefining yourself, becoming a new person, comes in again. Right? And you’re 16 hours a day and you’re like not taking anything. Everybody’s like, you’re gonna burn out. And I’m like, burnout’s in my nature. Like, just keep on going. You’ve gotta push through this thing.

[00:19:13] And absolutely, you know, coming to the states, I’ve lost my thyroid from it, from pushing so hard and just being relentless on it. But I think A DHD is my blessing there, man. It’s like this hyper focus. We obsessive and we have to win. We take no prisoners.

[00:19:28] Flip: There’s such a big lesson in that day, Ricky, is that, you know, we, we get taught at school that, you know, you have to wait for permission.

[00:19:35] And what I, what I love about is, like you say, well, I I’m not, you’re not a qualified engineer with, you know, you’re not, you’re not even a boat builder. You just built a boat, so, so. I didn’t wait for any permission to do that. And I think it’s a valuable lesson to people listening and wondering, what do you know?

[00:19:51] What does the future look like? And I mean, that’s actually a good barrel we have from both guests today. I think Percy, when you kicked your first ball, you didn’t think you’re gonna end up selling tequila one day. It’s, it’s you is, you shouldn’t wait for, for permission to do anything. You know, if you have your basics right, you come back to discipline and hard work.

[00:20:10] You always be a successor.

[00:20:13] Justinus: What’s interesting to me, Ricky, is how you completely, the embrace of that identity. You didn’t shy away from it. You, you almost used it as a springboard to, to broaden your horizons, change your context, and, and, and move, move from South Africa to the US in the most challenging and the longest possible way.

[00:20:35] Yeah. What was it like then when you landed here? Was it was. It easy to adapt, or what were some of the challenges or unexpected hardships that you faced once you landed in in the states?

[00:20:47] Ricky: Justine, that’s a great question to, to emphasize is I lost $50,000 in my first six months in the States, like off the bat on an investment, like gone, right?

[00:20:56] So that was my introduction, like, welcome to the States. You’re playing with the big boys now. You know, and I always say there, there’s levels of of success and there’s levels of skill, right? A lot of people say, oh, the average American’s not that smart. And, and yeah, sure, maybe, maybe not. I promise you one thing is the 1% of Americans.

[00:21:15] On a league that you’ll not imagine. It is vastly, vastly different from what the game we played in South Africa for me personally. Right. On a business level, understanding what they understand, psychology, marketing, human nature, sales, it’s just phenomenal. And coming to the states, you know, I came with a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, you know, coming in the yachting.

[00:21:36] I was gonna move into Fort Lauderdale and we’re gonna do lots of yachts. We’re gonna build a multimillion dollar business. And, um. Quick reset and kind of establishing to understand, hey, you might have been good in somewhere where there’s no competition, but the states, there’s big boys playing, right? So it it to, to Percy’s point, right?

[00:21:55] Humbled me really quickly. I went through a major session of a really dark season in my life and that’s when I did what I know best. Hey, okay, how do I put in 16 hours a day? What are the skills that I need to learn here that I can stand up, become a person of value for this market? And then. Open that many doors with people because I’m valuable to them.

[00:22:16] Right? So, and that, and that’s what I focused on, was how do I become better? Because I know the only controlling factor that I have is myself, and it’s not the environment around me, right? So my controlling factor was that, okay, I have to play this game at a much higher level and I need to do everything in my power to do that.

[00:22:32] That included investing in masterminds. You know, if I tell South Africans, hey. I pay 200,000 rand for personal coaches to coach me, and I’ve got multiple of them. People would be like, what are you talking about? Like the average South African for the most part doesn’t understand this. And I’ve got multiple coaches that I pay 200,000 to become the best at whatever they doing.

[00:22:53] Right. And, and, and the, the thing there is learn from those that have come before you. They’ve, they’ve, they’ve bled, they’ve sweated, they’ve achieved the success. Go to them, get mentorship. And that’s what I did when I, when I came here.

[00:23:06] Justinus: Can you tell us a story of, of a day that you think you, you hit rock bottom and, and what was the trigger that turned you around?

[00:23:14] Ricky: So, I’m very driven by anger, which is a weird thing. You know, it’s, it’s kind of getting a little bit personal, but I’m very driven by anger and usually it’s anger from not succeed. Right. Like I was in a, I wouldn’t call it a motel, it’s like an extended stay in Knoxville, Tennessee. And I’m looking out the window and there’s contractors living there and there’s a whole bunch of people and I’m just like, what am I doing?

[00:23:38] You know, back home I had this base, I. Built this stuff, what am I doing? Like, and now I’m burning like equivalent to a hundred thousand ran a month in the us, you know? Uh, so, and I’m still spending rans by the way. I’m not spending US dollars that are income. I’m spending rans at the time, and I’m just thinking to myself like, what?

[00:23:57] Why do I keep on repeating this pattern of getting down into this really bad dip? But I’m there and I’m in this motel myself and my wife, and I’m no like, hey. At this kind of rate. It’s not gonna be many years before. We are like really in financial, like, and everything we’ve built is just for nothing dark place in my life.

[00:24:16] But again, back to the same point, I, I started opening the book, started downloading, started reaching out to. Every single online mentor that existed in the US started studying Tony Robbins, Alex Hoey, Russell Brunson, Robert Kiyosaki. You know, and fast forward three years, I’ve met every single one of them, which is that exact thing right there.

[00:24:37] There is a pattern in everything we do. It’s just commit to it and soon you’ll meet every single one of these people that have done really amazing things. You have to commit to master each of those stages. But yeah, that was a, that was a really, really dark, dark time. Glad, glad, happy to be out of it. But I know that they don’t disappear forever.

[00:24:57] Flip: It’s certainly a thing that I think I’m, I went through and I’m still going through constantly learning and like finding identity or re redeveloping yourself. I guess that’s what we need to do.

[00:25:10] Justinus: Yeah.

[00:25:10] Flip: Firstly, I would like to hear your insights. ’cause you know, you, I was just a normal guy. You were like the first centurion.

[00:25:16] Everyone knew Percy. It’s not difficult to recognize you globally and then, you know, to reinvent yourself. That’s the, the hard part is what did you go back to to find those basics? You know, to just be Percy,

[00:25:29] Percy: like Ricky said, you have to lose to be able to win. Mean once you’ve tasted success, you know you wanna stay there, but in life it doesn’t work like that.

[00:25:40] I had no idea I was gonna do tequila. And I would, we were actually stuck in COVID and my girlfriend said to me that, ba, we’ve gotta do something. You know what I mean? What, what do you love? So I actually said, I love tequila and I actually do love tequila. And then we came, obviously being, being the centurion, we came up with El Centurion, 1 0 2 being the, the amounts of test matches I played just came back from the, the, from New York.

[00:26:08] We managed to watch the New York Sevens at the Sports Illustrated Stadium and we are the official supplier there for the tequila. So that was quite a big thing for us. And the Blitz Booker won on my birthday on the 15th of March, so it was uh, a big week for I think most are Africans. And we launched a tequila in the US which was great, and then came back to South Africa to watch a bit of live golf on tv, which was also amazing for South Africans.

[00:26:36] You know, it’s another next step. For golf. Like I said, I did my hard yards. The liquor industry is a tough, tough business to get into, and, and we definitely paid our school fees. Like, like Ricky, I think that’s just normal, but I’m glad it it happened like that so I could learn, learn. I didn’t wanna go straight in and it just been handed the carrots and there you go.

[00:26:57] You know, you gotta do the hard yards and then you know what’s, what’s going on.

[00:27:02] Justinus: So what was this artist for you, Percy, in that transition and, and now storing a new business? Like I assume before the tequila you had never been in the liquor business, so it was a completely new David. And what was the biggest challenge once you decided that tequila was gonna be the thing you want to do?

[00:27:20] Percy: I was trying to find myself after rugby and it was quite a challenging period for me personally. And so I’ve been going through a lot of ups and downs, but then just, um. Obviously COVID was another big thing for a lot of South Africans. We all, uh, had ma lose mates, I mean a lot of rugby mates as well.

[00:27:39] You know, you adjust to what’s put in front of you and I think we decided, yeah, we’re gonna go for it. And, uh, my girlfriend and I, we, uh, created the centurion and um, yeah, we just pushed forward. It was tough from the beginning, but she keeps reminding me not to. Go into the stock and drink it and, uh, tell it.

[00:28:00] But, um, but it, but it, it has been really cool. I mean, not everyone has a tequila named off to them, which is really cool. And by the way, we’ve got our foundation, the sax person, Montgomery Foundation at our school, which we’ve brought eight kids through school and each bottle sold. We give a percentage towards, uh, development or a bursary.

[00:28:19] ’cause I got a bursary from Wal Fish Bay and only went home two, three times a year. So I said, well, I might as well do it for other kids. So we managed to put eight kids through sacks. Umm, happy about that. And I just wanna thank all the people buying the bottles and helping us, which is, it’s been fantastic and we’re just gonna keep going with it.

[00:28:37] Justinus: That’s such a cool story, Percy. I actually didn’t know that because one of the things I think people. The, the way we build a country that works for everybody in South Africa is, I think, is the ability to find talented people without access. ’cause I, I sort of believe these two things to be true is one that the talent in South Africa is very normally distributed.

[00:29:00] You can go into almost any community and they’ll be a top 1% of something in that community. The problem we have in South Africa is the ability for that talent to find access and come get out of their environment is severely limited because of historical and, and other factors. So for you, do you think that getting the bursary to go to Sachs changed the trajectory of your life in a meaningful way?

[00:29:29] Percy: Yeah, definitely. I mean, uh, I was in standard two and I was crying a lot in the, in the hostel from nine years old, and I just wanted to go home. But then the, the superintendent said, no, just let him be, let him be, we’ll get his niche. And then the guys got, let’s go play some touch rugby. And I got into sports and the water polo and, and rugby.

[00:29:49] And my dad played rugby. So there was a connection and they, they, the sax family looked after me, which was very happy that eventually, um. Survived that ordeal. I think after rugby as as well, I did a lot of CHA charity work and especially with SA Legends, the Atlas Foundation with Jason Leonard from the uk.

[00:30:09] There’s a huge foundation here in South Africa as well, and they do a lot, lot for the communities in that. And I think that kept me really. Busier with the Princess Shalene Foundation. So I do a lot of charities, but at the end of the day, that doesn’t pay your salary. You know what I mean? So that’s why I had to come up with something and that’s why we came up with one or two.

[00:30:27] So I can also give back to the community, but also be able to live.

[00:30:32] Flip: It’s such an incredible story to get to the purpose at. I think that’s the biggest thing, Ricky, it comes through in your story as well, is question of purpose. It’s like if you put proper purpose to anything, you know you will achieve success.

[00:30:45] Uh, Ricky, that’s maybe a question to you is like, how do you constantly go back to the purpose is like, why do I have to wake up this morning? Why do I do this?

[00:30:53] Ricky: I think with. Just for myself in particular, and I think with a lot of high performers is we kind of sometimes need to remind ourselves what is the purpose, right?

[00:31:02] And need to ensure that that why is big enough. Otherwise the how becomes really, really difficult. So for myself, I always remind myself of the why, why am I doing this? And then the how is irrelevant, right? It’s just a matter of resources to achieve the how. And a note for, I don’t know if you have younger viewers and Percy, I love what you’re doing with helping people with scholarships and, and going through there, but my biggest giveaway for, for a lot of youngsters, and I wish I knew this a lot younger one, is, change your environment first and foremost as fast as possible, as quick as possible.

[00:31:35] Change your environment. Anything’s holding you back in life is pivot from that environment. Number two is change the people you’re surrounding yourselves with. Right. Your, your five people that are around you, you’ll be the average of them immediately. And then third most is the only thing that adjusts everything you do in life is you, yourself, the commit to, to mastery, commit to education, commit to improving yourself, anyone, regardless of what your situation is, if you ever take that approach for me, it’s worked out very, very well.

[00:32:04] So, you know, and then purpose in that is deciding how, how do I build something that impacts other people’s life and makes them achieves them some form of results, right? So in my mind, how I’m thinking, the first part of receiving anything, life is actually giving, right? So I have to go out and give more than anyone else.

[00:32:25] And my objective is always, how do I give more? Whenever we launch that, the first thing I always have in mind is how, how do we give so much that people would feel? That they have to commit to this. Like this is so much value that they wanna be a part of this. And that’s always my objective. Like in anything that I’m building is always how do I deliver so much value?

[00:32:46] It’s irrefutable that they would want to partner with me,

[00:32:50] Justinus: Rick. Yeah, I, I completely agree. I think the challenge is a, and, and the reason I say this is last week we, I was in the Eastern cape watching rural schools playing a tournament. For a lot of kids that come out of exceptionally challenging environments, the idea that they, Angela Duckworth and Grid talks about it, it’s this fine line between learn to helplessness and learn optimism.

[00:33:18] So how do we create the context where more kids realize that they can actually do those things? ’cause once you realize it and you do something that changes the outcome. Then psychologically it becomes easier. ’cause now you know your action will influence the outcome. But before you realize that you’re stuck in a world where you think, nothing I do will make any difference, and then you, then you go down that despair.

[00:33:41] So what do you think is the key for that insightful idea to put to. ’cause I believe that’s how, if we can scale that belief in South Africa, if we can let every kid believe that they can change the outcome of their lives, then the country is already a different place.

[00:33:58] Ricky: And this is something that’s so close to my heart, man.

[00:34:01] It’s, I, I, I hate seeing anyone struggle in life because I figured out the formula of success in, in my own version of success. Right? And the biggest thing I’d say there is. YouTube and, and this is gonna sound so cliche, but I say YouTube has taught me so much as a young kid in I, if I rewind to 16-year-old Ricky, like not really much cash, not much pocket money in that.

[00:34:24] But I would, I would go on YouTube and I’d watch things and I’d be like, okay, let me go fix this thing. And I started with small stuff like flipping fish tanks. I was buying and selling fish tanks from porn shops. I’d go clean them up, fix them. And fast forward three years from there, I was flipping. Half a million ran wakeboard boats in South Africa.

[00:34:43] Right, right. I was the only kid that drove A BMW, like outta my all, all our friends. I had a BMW three series. It wasn’t the

[00:34:51] Flip: which one.

[00:34:55] Ricky: But, but that’s the, that’s the thing, right? Once I’d realized, hey, you can add value to something and then sell it to the marketplace. One of my mentors taught me this, Ricky, you don’t lack resources. ’cause I came to him, I’m like, Hey, I need a million dollars. I want to buy this bus. He’s like, Ricky, you don’t, you don’t lack resources.

[00:35:10] You lack resourcefulness, right? So resourcefulness is ultimately what will, ’cause remember, it’s, you can give the guy a fish or you can teach him how to fish, right? And that’s the ability of being resourceful. When you become resourceful and what I’d encourage, like if there’s any kids in South Africa that are in positions right now that they don’t have a way out, find your nearest friend’s mobile phone.

[00:35:34] Go, go learn a skill, be it ai, be it automation in a business, be it building local Google My Business pages, being building basic websites. Trust me, AI has come so far. I can build your website in five seconds right now, so I can do that for any business in South Africa right now. And I’d probably be.

[00:35:52] Beating 50% of the market. So what I would say to all those kids, do it on a phone. Do it. If you don’t have access to a laptop, find anything. You can go ask your neighbor. Go find the richest guy on your block. Ask him if you can use it. Right. Is it hard in the beginning? Absolutely. Justina. I agree. I think there’s a particular point of income where it feels like no matter what you do.

[00:36:13] Nothing will change. Like it’s, it’s an absolute pit of, and then we have the saying in marketing, which is you have to have an email evil to prove a good right. Now the problem is institutions, and I won’t mention names, but institutions can always paint who they want to be, the evil. Right? And then they can sell you their vision as the actual outcome.

[00:36:38] You know, and that’s something I learned really bad with marketing, that that kind of. Solidified a lot of things that happen around the world. Who’s the narrator of the story and what’s the, what’s the evil that they can paint, which sometimes is not reality. It’s purely an image that has been created or given to people to imprison them, to keep them stuck to whatever it is, right?

[00:37:01] And instead, how do we start telling our own story? And I think a lot of that is privatizing media sharing information like this, where it’s coming from. Non-biased sources. Non non-controlled sources, you know? So then my advice would be, hop on the internet guys. The world South Africa’s connected to the world today.

[00:37:19] You know, I know some South Africans that are doing exceptionally well online. Get online youngsters. Spend time there, reshape yourself, become flexibility, become a noodle. You have to be able to chop and change as fast as possible. The person who you believe you are is just a byproduct of the environment you grew up in.

[00:37:39] And it’s not who you really can be, right? So go become that other person and you’re like,

[00:37:43] Justinus: that’s the biggest challenge, right? Is that realizing that identity is moldable, right? Yes. You can change that identity. Yeah, you can change the outcome. You can, because I think people get so stuck in, oh, I’m a. Fri from, you say Victoria?

[00:37:59] Flip: Yeah, you could say it.

[00:38:00] Justinus: Yeah. Yeah. Like Fris from Victoria. So, so the key is yes, that might be what you’ve done up to this point, but that doesn’t mean you can’t change it or become something else, or learn something new. But I like, I think what resonated with me so deeply what you said there is that it, you don’t lack resources.

[00:38:22] You interact. Resourcefulness. And I think that’s the key. And I mean, what’s been amazing to me in doing this podcast is how many of the ex-players really struggle with that transition after rugby. And I think some of those lessons and some of what you’re talking about doesn’t only help the the poor kid from a challenging environment that needs to learn that he can change the future, but it helps actually.

[00:38:46] Wellknown rugby players that need to start over after a career. ’cause that’s just as challenging. Yeah, and I think one of the things I’ve learned or realized in North America is that for every person, whatever your biggest challenge is, your biggest challenge that occupies whatever the most of your mental energy and, and you have to find a way to overcome that.

[00:39:08] So Ricky, thanks. That was absolutely amazing.

[00:39:11] Percy: I think also try and do something you love. You know, I mean a lot of, a lot of guys go, especially myself, you go into a business or, or you do try something, but you don’t really enjoy it, you know? So I think it makes a big thing, especially today, life is, shows short.

[00:39:24] So do something you love and then just believe in yourself and then, and like, like Ricky said, put the right guys around you and get as much info as as you, as much as you can. And then, you know, you put the right guys with you, you got the right team behind you. I think you can, you can do a lot.

[00:39:41] Flip: There’s a lot to percent for that passion.

[00:39:43] You know, I think if you take away the money, would you still be doing this? And I think that’s such an important question. Like even in work where there’s always a gatekeeper somewhere that can end everything tomorrow, take away all the cash and all the bright lights, will you still be doing that? I think that’s such an important question.

[00:39:59] And again, yeah, if you have the purpose behind it, that helps a lot.

[00:40:02] Ricky: There was this, uh, study that I read. Um, it was about only 20% of people can actually say they love what they do in the world, right? So if, if you wake up every morning and you say, Hey, I still love this, you’re part of the 20%. If you’re successful at it, you put a 1%.

[00:40:19] You know, so quite a phenomenal thing.

[00:40:23] Justinus: I mean, I think that’s also interesting point. I think. As, as a society, we are gonna have to figure that out better in the next 10 years. ’cause I think with AI, a lot of the jobs and things that we are gonna be able to do, the context is gonna change. And a lot of the jobs that people have done that they’ve hated for years might not be there anymore.

[00:40:44] So you’re gonna be forced to find opportunities and, and, and things that, that you love and can add value that that AI or computer’s gone.

[00:40:53] Ricky: So one of my mentors taught me this. He says, Ricky, whatever you do, build the largest community you can. ’cause AI can never replace community. It can’t replace this.

[00:41:01] Like us hopping on a call, meeting people that we watch, play rugby at the highest level possible. I mean, it’s an honor to do that, but it AI can’t replace this feeling build community. And from our businesses, we focus a lot in it. We try and build community as opposed to selling product. The community behind it scale that, ’cause it’s like a movement.

[00:41:23] Like why is, why are the spring books so famous? Right? They’ve built a community, like that’s the big thing. Right? But a big thing is community. Community drives masses. Masses drive volume and drives success. So I’d always say build community first.

[00:41:39] Flip: Watch out for the Portuguese. They’re pretty good these days, huh?

[00:41:42] Justinus: One of our first guests in our first few episodes was, was Tim Vira, and he’s also South African Portuguese in Portugal, and he actually worked with the Legends a lot, brought a branch of the legends to Portugal. So he’s trying really hard to help the Portuguese improve their rugby and create the community there.

[00:41:59] So, so hopefully in a, in a few years we can talk about their game as well.

[00:42:04] Ricky: That’ll be awesome, man.

[00:42:06] Percy: I’ve actually been going there from 2016 with the SA legend, so every three years. So I’ve been fortunate enough and I’ve met him and I went to his garage and his whole family and all that in Portugal, and they, what they’re doing there is just, is tremendous for the development of sports and the, the what SA Legends are doing as well with Kevin Regis.

[00:42:26] Justinus: Tim is a great human being.

[00:42:28] Flip: It’s pretty amazing and I’ve mentioned it before and I’ll say it again, but personally, you are a legend. From 97 Lions up until 2007, the World Cup, it’s not a lot of people that can say that. What, what would you like people to be, remember you as? What would Percy Montgomery’s legacy be?

[00:42:51] Percy: Sure. Obviously it’s, it’s cool to have a legacy and leave behind. I think that’s, uh, that’s, uh, it’s, and, and the person, Montgomery Foundation. I think that’s what it’s all about, you know, because when you, when you, when you die, you die, you know? But if you have a legacy, hopefully, um, youngsters can just f just fo follow suit.

[00:43:14] It is like the tequila hun. I think our motto is, uh, ma uh, made, made for legends, shared by friends and, uh, and that’s what we are sticking to.

[00:43:25] Ricky: Yeah.

[00:43:27] Flip: Powerful man. I think we, we definitely all learned the lesson today about. A difference. Uh, Ricky, what, what, what are you building for tomorrow?

[00:43:35] Ricky: Yeah, so, so we, we a lot in, in a few spaces.

[00:43:38] One being commercial real estate, one being business acquisitions, and the third one is in coaching. Probably we’re most passionate about the coaching sector, teaching those that don’t know how to move forward from being stuck, you know? ’cause it was a stage where I was stuck. I didn’t know how to move forward and I didn’t know that I could change my life, you know, coming from a small town.

[00:44:00] I didn’t know that that could change. So a legacy hopefully, that I leave behind one day would be to be a resource for youngsters. Anyone, you know, sometimes I coach people that are much older than me today. And, um, just coaching them that you can change. You know, your life doesn’t have to suck forever or you don’t have to be in this pain forever.

[00:44:17] So leaving maybe hope and inspiration for them to go achieve what they want to achieve.

[00:44:23] Justinus: So let’s look forward to next year, the 13th of November, 2027 in Sydney. There’s gonna be a big rugby game. Hopefully our boys will be there and going for a threepeat. Do you think we can do it? And where are you gonna be watching and enjoying the game from?

[00:44:43] Ricky: Yeah, I think you, you lead with that one

[00:44:45] Percy: might actually be going to, uh, the World Cup, uh, with, with mates. Uh, but I definitely, uh, I think the way with the depth we got in our team with Rusty’s Depth, the way he’s doing it, I think we’ve got a chance definitely to win the World Cup. But it all depends on the law changes again, what they’re gonna do before.

[00:45:06] I mean, anything can happen. Um. So it’s all, and, but I know Rashi, I mean, we’ve got our own refs in that we and how quickly we can adapt and I think our, our, our players are, are pretty mature and um, and, um, we, we got a really good chance.

[00:45:22] Ricky: Definitely a win. I’m, I’m always the optimist, so I’d, I’d absolutely say South Africa’s gonna crush it, and hopefully I’m get some more of these Americans around it.

[00:45:31] You know, every single time we have a game, I invite a few more Americans, show them what rugby looks like, not that football that goes four hours and has 20 breaks in it. I’m like, as you get excited, the game stops. I’m like, what is this? But I, I realize they’re running a, a marketing campaign and not, not a sport.

[00:45:48] So I’m gonna get flack for that one.

[00:45:50] Justinus: And, and I mean, lucky for you, Meki and, and for me, in, in four years later, the, the World Cup will be up here in, in North America. Super, super stoked for that.

[00:46:00] Percy: Yeah. Yeah. That’s gonna be amazing. That’s one of the reasons why we, we, uh. Started launch, we just launched Centurion, one or two tequila in the States because of the world building up to the World Cup, you know, and getting the brand out there and helping and try and teach players about the game of rugby because it is a beautiful game.

[00:46:18] I mean, let’s admit, and that’s why we play this game and it gives us a lot of opportunities and skills out there.

[00:46:24] Ricky: Yeah, I always say once you enter the American market, everything changes. Yeah, and hopefully for South African players to get compensated on a level that’s equivalent to what American NFL players are earning.

[00:46:36] It would be huge to see that for every single player

[00:46:39] Flip: that that is the pipe dream, hopefully. Yeah. Percy, what’s your favorite tequila cocktail? Huh?

[00:46:44] Percy: We’ve actually come up with a, it’s called the box shot, so it’s a little lemon with grinded coffee and fine brown sugar. So try it at home. But you gotta get our tequila in the states there, Ricky.

[00:46:56] That’s from the Harbor House Lighthouse. Don’t forget, I’ll, I’ll send you the details. Don’t worry.

[00:47:01] Flip: Send it

[00:47:02] Ricky: to me for sure.

[00:47:02] Flip: Absolutely.

[00:47:03] Percy: And try the box shots. Yeah.

[00:47:04] Flip: To end off, we let our guests ask each other a question. So Ricky, if you have a question for Percy.

[00:47:12] Ricky: I actually wrote it down ’cause I felt that this was, IM important.

[00:47:16] So, Percy, you’ve run critical roles in a team and, and some of the moments where you have to kick in the entire stadium, the whole country is kind of watching you kick and hoping that you kick it. What’s going through your mind and what your decision process. To ensure that, hey, even though there’s complete chaos around you, you calm and you focused on achieving this goal kick and make sure that’s it’s success.

[00:47:43] Percy: Well, as a kicker, you’ve got a responsibility to kick that ball over. I think it’s all about, obviously repetition. The more you, more you practice, the better you become and, and by that time I was at 80% record and that’s, I think you have to be at 80% to be a international kicker. But I think just visualizing, visualizing the ball going through the poles, I think is very important.

[00:48:07] And you, we call it, you’re in the zone where you block, you don’t even hear the crowd, but um, and you just maintain the same kicking routine that I had. But yeah, just maintaining the same rhythm. They’ve got the same kicking style, they’re not gonna adjust it, and they just visualize the ball going through the pole.

[00:48:25] Being confident and believing in yourself. The most important.

[00:48:28] Ricky: I love the part that you add, envision it. ’cause very few people talk about actually visualizing it happening. That’s amazing. Awesome.

[00:48:37] Flip: Yeah. You have a question for Ricky?

[00:48:38] Percy: Yeah. My girlfriend just asked if she wants to move to the States. What should we do?

[00:48:43] Ricky: Yeah, let, let’s get a call. Let’s get on a call about it. Be more than happy to give you the full rundown. It is an extensive process, but more than happy to explain it.

[00:48:54] Percy: So I don’t really have a question right now, but, uh, just great meeting you and, uh, yeah. Thanks guys. Uh, it’s been, uh, it’s been really amazing, amazing chat and uh, yeah, good to see you again.

[00:49:06] Flip.

[00:49:07] Flip: Yeah. Good to see you. Looking good per.

[00:49:10] Justinus: Thanks guys. That was amazing. Really enjoyed the insights and the shares and, and I think as we all walk this journey of life, the more we can, like Ricky said, surround us with, with people who, who share this bond and wanna work together. And I think that’s one of the amazing things about South Africans all around the world.

[00:49:29] I got, uh, introduced to Flip and through Flip to Percy and Ricky, Michael in Nashville said, we have to get Ricky on the podcast. So he was absolutely right. Michael, thanks for the introduction and that’s what I found amazing in the last few months, really just connecting with amazing South Africans around the world having these wonderful conversations, and today was one of the best we’ve had so far.

[00:49:51] So thank you very much for your time and thanks for sharing and helping us help the audience.

[00:49:57] Ricky: Absolutely Percy Flip and Justina. Thank you guys so much. You guys are your 1% of 1% in your own right and appreciate you sharing your knowledge and growing and please reach out. Anything I can help from my side, always willing to give away.

[00:50:11] Percy: Thanks Ricky, appreciate that.